October 26, 2015  |  Time: 1:00:08  |  Subscribe in iTunes

Speakers: Sheila Savar, Savar Institute Founder and Chief InPowerment Officer; John Gilroy, BLT Global Ventures LLC Director of Marketing and Business Development; and Kari Mirabal, The Connection Coach.

Listen to our three experts give their recommendations on how to build connections, ways to approach networking and how to use LinkedIn well beyond its “job hunting” capacity. Ultimately, making connections, doing the work of planning for networking (virtual and physical), and maintaining the ongoing interrelationships it generates, is all about enhancing your company’s brand or creating your own personal brand. So, grab a pen and paper, order more business cards, and get ready to shake some hands after you have listened to, “Connections.”

Listen online or read the full podcast transcript below.

About the Speakers

Sheila Savar

Savar Institute
Founder and Chief InPowerment Officer (CIPO)

Sheila Savar is the founder of The Savar Institute, a consulting firm specializing in providing distinctive leadership and professional development programs that accelerate business profitability and growth.

In 2009, she gained admittance to Vistage International’s prestigious Speakers Bureau as an Expert Resource Speaker.

A noted keynote speaker, facilitator, and author of THE POWER OF NETWORKING, Sheila has earned acclaim from such global business leaders as The World Bank, PMI, SHRM, Unisys, BAE, CACI, BT Americas, Microsoft, AOL, Duetche Telekom and more.

Prior to founding The Savar Institute in 2002, Sheila worked for a broad range of companies, from start-up ventures to the Fortune 100, across multiple industries. She draws on her diverse work experiences to illustrate topical content that enables her audience to actualize the learning experience.

portrait of Sheila Savar

John Gilroy

BLT Global Ventures LLC
Director of Marketing and Business Development

John Gilroy has been involved in the tech community in Washington, D.C. for over twenty years. He has been on WAMU 88.5 FM as one of The Computer Guys since 1991. Also, he has conducted 390 interviews on Federal News Radio. In addition to his 218 blog posts, he has written 523 columns for The Washington Post. In 2014, John won the Tropaia Award for outstanding faculty at Georgetown University. His day job is leading the social media marketing team at BLT.

portrait of John Gilroy

Kari Mirabal

Kari Mirabal, The Connection Coach, leads you to People, Opportunity and Profit using the power of connection.

She challenges others to network smart leveraging both traditional and social media connection strategies. Through keynote presentations, corporate workshops and customized coaching programs, audiences learn how to expand brand awareness, take advantage of today's #1 networking platform for professionals - LinkedIn, and navigate the unpublished job market to find new career opportunities.

Kari doesn’t just “lead the way”, she empowers others to explore and create new possibilities missed by most. Through real-world examples, humor and storytelling, Kari shares proven techniques for how powerful connections can lead others to new possibilities.

Interested in learning more about how to unlock the secrets of making the most of your professional connections? Learn more at or connect with Kari via LinkedIn at

portrait of Kari Mirabal

Full Podcast Transcript

0:00:05 Speaker 1: 200 people in a room. This is like a bowl full of ice cream. It's like, "Wow, this is great, I can meet people, I can interact."

0:00:11 Speaker 2: The US Chamber of Commerce says the average person takes seven contacts to be remembered.


0:00:21 Speaker 3: I love when people tell me that LinkedIn doesn't work, 'cause it's like game on.

0:00:27 Speaker 4: From the Washington DC chapter of the Project Management Institute, this is PM Point of View, the podcast that looks at project management from all the angles. Here's your host, Kendall Lott.

0:00:39 S1: The art of networking, more deeply the resulting value in the connections you make, it's not something you find in the PMBOK, and it doesn't show up in your standard PM course curriculum. But there's probably no skill or professional outcome more important to a project manager, or really any member of the workforce. And that's whether they are currently working, looking for work or looking to hire. The work environment is constantly shifting, people are moving. There aren't many gold watches being given out these days, but there is gold in the connections that you make and keep.

0:01:12 S1: In this podcast, I talk to three masters of the art of meaningful connection. Sheila Savar, the chief empowerment officer of the Savar institute; John Gilroy, professor, writer, keynote speaker, and previous Point of View podcast guest; and Kari Mirabal, speaker and author known as the Connection Coach. Certain recurring themes emerge in these interviews: Fear and how to deal with it, approaching a networking function strategically as well as seeing it as an opportunity to learn rather than as a show and tell. And then, there are all the ways you can use and benefit from LinkedIn specifically, as a professional tool, not just for online networking but for enriching your professional knowledge base.

0:01:51 S1: Milestone one. What's your RONI? Sheila Savar is a transformational instructor, and keynote speaker, business connector, author, publisher, and relationship and stress management coach. She views networking as a key strategic operation for HR professionals, executives and people who are looking for work.

0:02:13 S1: You published a book some years ago on the power of networking. Your thesis is a strategy to approach networking, because it's costly.

0:02:22 S2: It's really your business plan. So, either I'm a business owner, so I'm looking for sales, or I'm looking for business. As a salesperson I would do the same. I might be wanting a new career, so I'm going with another objective in mind. I might be going for a job. So, it depends on what your objective is and at different times in our lives, we have different objectives, and that's where we can more efficiently and more productively get what we need by going to our network of contacts. So, it's having a goal in mind. The strategy comes about from the goal.


0:03:02 S1: So, we know people want business, they want jobs. Have you discovered other goals that people need to build strategies around? What have you observed? 

0:03:07 S2: Yes, for HR managers, looking at it from their perspective. "Alright, we hire people based on their skills and their experience." And you and I both know, that's not always the good thing. We can actually teach people to do a job better than we can teach them to fit into our culture or an attitude that they bring with them, we can't take weaknesses and turn them into strengths. And so, they can send their HR people to these networking events, again strategically targeted, whatever types of people they're looking for, those are the networking events they need to select and attend. And they start to develop those relationships before they need them. So, as those openings come about, they've gotten to know people and they can then hand select and their likelihood of retention escalates. And that's the return on the networking.


0:04:08 S1: So, tell me about the strategy. How would you suggest project managers who might be in a role of needing to make sure that they're able to keep hiring, be able to get new customers or perhaps are looking for new jobs. How do they build the strategy? 

0:04:20 S2: First of all, start with the end in mind, what are you trying to accomplish? What's your goal? So, let's say for your project managers, it may be to recruit or it may be to look for work. Then what we do once we have started with the end in mind, we start to build the roadmap to get us there. So, now we know there are tons of networking functions in this town, constantly. How do you go to the right one? That's the key. So, what you want to do now is based on your goal or objective, now you can be more strategic. You can start to target. Where are my prospects likely to be? 

0:05:00 S1: Sounds like there's a research element.

0:05:02 S2: Absolutely. And there the internet comes in handy, because they can look at those networking events, see the types of people that attend and determine. And you then look at professional associations. It could be Chamber functions. You wanna look at sometimes Toastmasters, it depends again on your objective. So, for your project managers, PMI would be the right place because for both, for careers and for recruiting, that would be one of the better places to go. Another part of the strategy is you get involved with your community, because that's an opportunity to meet very senior executives.

0:05:39 S1: In what way would you say that? That's interesting.

0:05:41 S2: Many senior executives, CEOs, chairs of the board, they are very active in nonprofit organizations, and they go there and the likelihood of meeting those people is next to nil, except when you go to these functions and get involved. So you look for these opportunities, not only to give back to your community and to do good, but it's a wonderful way to meet people at very high levels. So, once you've created that strategy based on what you want to accomplish, now you've got a roadmap.


0:06:22 S2: The next step would be then, "Alright, now I've got my strategy. How do I execute it?" Because the US Chamber of Commerce says the average person takes seven contacts to be remembered.

0:06:34 S1: Seven contacts.

0:06:35 S2: Seven contacts to be remembered.

0:06:36 S1: You have to send an email seven times or a phone call or meet somebody seven times.

0:06:39 S2: You have to meet somebody seven times at networking events, the average person before they're remembered. So that... Again, we'll go out of business if we're small, we can go out of business before that happens. So, how can we increase that so that we're remembered in one or two contacts? 

0:06:55 S1: I'm already imagining how that could go bad. If you're trying to stand out really fast in only one or two contacts, there's a lot of care that must be needed right here.

0:07:02 S2: And a lot of this also came from observation of senior executives as I would go to networking events.

0:07:09 S1: Give me an example of one of the biggest dos that you have that people overlook. What's the most interesting do in that context? 

0:07:16 S2: I think one of the most difficult things is looking somebody right in the eye and smiling. So, it is the approachability factor. We have to combine approachability and credibility. It's got to be that balance. For so many, it might be one or the other. So, the dos are about being approachable first and establishing credibility, but it's combined in the way we dress. So, the easiest way to differentiate ourselves is the way we're dressed. So, if it says business casual, you go business formal because immediately, you'll stand out. Now, in all fairness, in the past few years, it's changed a lot. The business environment has changed dramatically. We see a lot, lot more of business casual everywhere, but we want to still stay a cut above everyone else, so that we get noticed.

0:08:16 S2: When you walk into the networking venue, you go to that registration desk. Many of those people, the majority of them, are volunteers. They've worked very hard. If the venue is lovely, if it looks really nice, if it looks... Let them know that. Thank them for it.

0:08:35 S1: I'm hearing graciousness under here...

0:08:37 S2: Very much, very much. Appreciating everyone. It doesn't matter what their rank is, who they are. That's the human connectivity factor, and it makes you stand out.


0:08:53 S2: One of the biggest, biggest obstacles I see out there is the handshake. It's a break or make moment. You've seen it.

0:09:01 S1: That's just frightening that that has to be true that way.

0:09:03 S2: But the handshake speaks volumes to people. It speaks about their credibility. "Do I wanna give my business to somebody that has this limp handshake because I don't feel that she has the ability to handle it? She's not assertive enough. How is she going to handle business if she can't shake a hand properly?" First impressions are lasting impressions.


0:09:27 S2: You wanna give before you get. When we meet at a networking function, we've done the approachability part. Now, what I would do is not tell you about me. I would ask you about you, so I would ask you, "So, Kendall, tell me why you're here. What are you hoping to accomplish?"

0:09:46 S2: Because that's how I can help you to meet the right people, and that's where we help make connections for people right in that room. So, it's not just that I'm there for me, I'm there to help others. So, I listen and let you speak first, and you tell me all about you. And then hopefully, you're gonna ask me, "So, tell me what you do?" And that's when it's my turn. And the important thing to remember at networking events, we're not there to sell anything. We're there to establish the relationship and taking it offline to develop it. Moving too quickly makes us appear like sleazy salespeople. We have to be careful with how much we say and make sure that they say first, and then we talk.


0:10:36 S2: So the four behavioral styles would be the commander, and the commander is the one that is... Can come on quite strongly. They're much more task business-focused. So, they wanna get right down to business. And then you've got the communicator. The communicator is more socially-oriented first. Doesn't mean that they're not the other, but they develop a relationship first. And then, we go to the collaborator; whereas the communicator and the commander are more direct assertive, the collaborator is socially oriented, but more indirect, and so they're very big on senses.

0:11:09 S2: And then, we have the compiler. The compiler, like the commander, is task-focused but they're indirect. They're the ones in the room that are the quiet ones, and they're the ones you almost have to draw out with asking the right questions. So, those are the four different styles. I'm cognizant of them when I meet people. But basically, when you follow the format that's laid out, it's a protocol that will work with everyone, because you are listening first, you are asking questions, you're getting information. And then, one of the biggest difficulties people have is how to disengage.

0:11:49 S2: This is where people really get stuck, so there are two ways...

0:11:52 S1: How to say goodbye.

0:11:53 S2: So, I give two different scenarios that you can use. So one of them would be something like this. Kendall, it's been lovely meeting with you, but I don't wanna prevent you from meeting other people, 'cause I know you are here to meet others.

0:12:08 S1: And that's the purpose, isn't it? 

0:12:09 S2: Right. So it's been a pleasure. Now, depending on whether we have decided to meet afterwards, that's how I will leave it. You never say anything that isn't true, I'll call you and you don't. So I'm gonna say, "It was a pleasure meeting you, and I look forward to meeting you at other PMI events." Or it might be, "I'll follow up with an email so we can get together for coffee and conversation," whatever it is that we've decided. So that's one technique. The other one would be, "You have told me that you are, say, looking for business, or you've told me about your business." So I can say to you, "Kendall, have you met John Smith?" And you'll say, "No, I haven't." I say, "Well, let me introduce you, because he looks for people that provide your services and there may be a teaming opportunity for you, so let me take you over and introduce you." And that's what I do, I bring them together. So now we've added so much value because we have helped in the networking process that we all hate, it's hard work, right? But if you've got now a whole room and everybody is helping each other, then you've created a whole network of people that are all helping you meet the right people in the room. I call it, RONI, return on networking investment.

0:13:21 S1: Oh, return on networking, RONI.

0:13:23 S2: Right? So we're maximizing it, not just for ourselves, but for everyone in the room. And these are ways that you're remembered in one or two contacts, rather than seven. The way you've dressed, your credibility, your approachability, your helpfulness, giving before you get, all of these contribute to your standing out.


0:13:48 S1: Did you observe any big don'ts that seemed to be a problem, just one of them. I'm sure you have a list.

0:13:54 S2: One of the biggest issues that people struggle with is should we eat and drink? Especially if people come alone, they're nervous. And so you show up, and the first thing we do is we go to the bar, and we get a drink, and then we go to the food, I'm gonna stand by the food. And then, of course, for those that really hate networking, they get their food and they stand against the wall, that's addressed too, how to help them while you're helping yourself. So they have the food. Alright, well, here's the problem with that. It's network, it's work, we're there to work. If you've got a drink in one hand, and you've the food in the other hand...

0:14:28 S1: There goes the handshake.

0:14:29 S2: There goes the handshake, which is the make-or-break moment. Even if you don't have the drink or you're holding the food, the other problem is you've got the food in your mouth almost always when somebody come ups to talk to you.

0:14:41 S1: So there goes the conversation.

0:14:42 S2: And it's those first impressions are lasting impressions. I notice that very senior level executives, they did not eat. They drank, they didn't eat. Drinking is the other, the drinking is fine, if you can handle. If you're a person that can have a drink and stay in your role of why you're there and everything, that's great. If you get really nervous and you go and have a drink and then you have another drink and pretty soon, the networking event feels like a party and you're having a good time, you've had too many drinks. [chuckle]


0:15:22 S1: We're talking to our more junior project managers or people breaking into it who want to be doing the networking, they can learn the dos and don'ts, anything special for them that you would highlight for them as junior in the profession in trying to get into the networking space, or needing to use networking to continue their professional development? 

0:15:39 S2: They absolutely need to do the face-to-face. Social media is so important and we all know this, but human connectivity is hardwired within us. And when we meet people and know people, we are much more likely to get the introduction. So, it's really important for them to go to these functions, but at the same time, the rules of engagement, their way of connecting, the phone, turning it off and putting it away, that's a differentiator. You will not see polished senior executives ever doing that. And so it does not make you look important, as a lot of people think, it actually discounts people.


0:16:35 S1: How do we do this in a non face-to-face, how has approachability versus credibility, for example, played out there? 

0:16:41 S2: I go back to how we make our first impressions and how we build on those impressions. So we know that 55% is visual and that's missing.

0:16:51 S1: So we take that away.

0:16:51 S2: That's gone, unless there's a picture of you, and then that picture should be professional. And then 38% is tonal, that's gone, remember the approachability, credibility, by the smile and no smile? 

0:17:03 S1: So how do we work that in a virtual environment? 

0:17:06 S2: So you're left with 7%, which is the verbal. And that's why there are so many miscommunications in e-mails and text messages, because people, they fill in the rest. And if they don't know you or if they're... Depends on their own filtering system, their own biases, their own insecurities, they fill in the rest.

0:17:24 S1: So what do you suggest for a virtual environment where that 7% is now essentially 100% of your interaction? What should I be watching out for there? What do you suggest from a connections perspective? 

0:17:34 S2: Using, again, the courtesy, doing the things that we can still do without being visual or tonal. So that means helping people when they need help, so give before you get. Being extra careful about the communication. You wanna make sure you emulate their style. So the commander, for example, you can tell. They have maybe one sentence, if you're lucky. They don't sign their name, even, unless it's part of the automatic signature. They probably haven't used your name. "I'll be there at 8:30."

0:18:09 S1: It sometimes feels like you know who I am, I mean, you asked me a question, I'm responding, I am, I'm taking this guy. It takes how many seconds, a split second to type your name, but still, it's not really.

0:18:18 S2: But they still don't do it... That's exactly right, it's a different thought process. That's why when we understand the behavioral styles, we stop taking offense at it, and we do more accepting and that builds the bridges rather than blows them up.

0:18:30 S1: So, there's one thing, don't take offense, be more accepting and then emulate the style.

0:18:33 S2: Emulate it. If you're a collaborator, where they do smiley faces and they write a lot, and they're touchy feely, that will drive that commander out of their minds. So, the better way is you write. Your initial one should be brief and polite. And then based on how they come back, then you can emulate that. When somebody responds, you when you respond back if you say, "Hi, Sheila," then I will come back with "Hi, Kendall." If you say, "Hello," I will use hello.

0:19:02 S2: I will attempt to emulate, to make it closer, to create the comfort, not because we are, it's not, some people say would, "Well, that's not honest or that's manipulative." No, it's considerate. That's what emotional intelligence is, it is removing the non-productive stress that we may be creating in another person because our behavioral style is not aligned with theirs. So, by more closely aligning with theirs, it removes their non-productive stress and we get heard.

0:19:30 S1: So, that's addressing the approachability side. What about the credibility side in this virtual environment? 

0:19:34 S2: And again, it's the same thing, you wanna keep it brief, you wanna be cognizant of time, you have to remember that people are inundated with messages and information. So, write whatever you want. I have exclamation points everywhere, that's a communicator for me. So then I go back...


0:19:52 S1: It's all very much fun and exciting.

0:19:52 S2: And drive people crazy, yeah, "Oh, that's so great, it's so good to hear you." I'm always happy, I'm always upbeat. Well, that can drive some people crazy. And so, then I go back and I take what I've written and I shorten it. How can I reduce it? And then I pull out all of the exclamation. It pains me, but I pull them all out, I might leave one, but if it's a commander, I don't. So you put it down and then you wanna go back and re-read it, and check it before you send it. Because sometimes that's the only chance you get. The primary objective is to remove the non-productive stress that we create by our style, so that the other person can focus on our message and we get heard.


0:20:42 S1: This all leads to this punchline, doesn't it? Which is maximizing your RONI. Your return on network investment.

0:20:47 S2: So that's where the social media aspect takes over, so that's really where we met these people, and what I say is, "Okay, who should be in our network?" I used to tell people when they had the business cards, rate them A, B, C right after the event. Because A is your top candidate that you're gonna have a meeting with. B is somebody that may be a teaming alliance, a partnership or something like that, you still wanna get together, it's a different need. C nothing, right now. But you don't wanna lose any of them. So, you want to connect with them on LinkedIn, you wanna get connected. And now on LinkedIn you can tag them, so you can create these different groups. The advantage of that is you never know when a C becomes an A, I've had that happen. People leave a job, they go to another job and now they're at the new company they know about you, they say the company has that need, they bring you in.

0:21:36 S2: So, it's the staying connected after the fact that is the key component. Because we'll go to a networking event, we will meet people, and we'll really hit it off, but we're gonna only remember them until the next networking event. You wanna make at least nine contacts with this person over 18 months. And it can be any kind of contact, it can be a text, it can be an email, it can be an ezine, it can be a blog or a LinkedIn post, or a message, or in person for coffee. Whatever it is, that's how you can establish the relationship. And again, you have to be selective. We meet so many people, there's where the strategy comes in, you have to look at the ones that provide the greatest value. And not that you ever don't help other people, but we only have so much time, so we have to make it count.


0:22:38 S1: Milestone Two. Five pillars and six fears, it's the math of the process. From interviews on Federal News Radio, to The Computer Guys on NPR, a show he founded in 1991, John Gilroy has over 20 years' experience at the intersection of technology and business in the Washington, DC area. I spoke to him earlier this year about his five pillars of networking. I wanted to follow up with him, to talk about another important aspect of the networking equation: The fear factor.


0:23:12 S3: John Gilroy.

0:23:12 S2: John, this is Kendall, we're back. So, what's the update? I just listened to it and it was really interesting, you talked about the five pillars but you've added some new stuff to it.

0:23:23 S3: Yeah, the stuff I added was the fears, F-E-A-R, you know the four letter word. The fears of face-to-face networking 'cause that's a... I wanna start off with that, 'cause that's what no one talks about. Everyone talks about the stuff, and then they went to LinkedIn, but what are you afraid of? Well, here's what you're afraid of, you're afraid to get rejected. So, fears are really just human beings like psychology 101. The pillars are the way to overcome that. This is how you structure yourself. And so when you're going into a new room and there's 200 people you don't know, so what do you rely on? You go back to your pillars, okay, here's what you do.


0:24:00 S3: It's like if you're playing middle linebacker and someone's coming at you, what do you do? Well, you position yourself here, and this is the correct approach, and you bend at the knees, and then you attack, and you put them on the ground. And this is pretty normal. Very few people can walk in a room with 200 strangers and feel comfortable. The first-timer fear is, "I'm shy." Well, guess what? You have to get over it. And one way to get over it is to just assume the persona of someone who's not shy, because it's too valuable in your long-term career. You're not gonna be able to get promoted, you could be locked into a dead-end position with a bad boss if you're not able to overcome your shyness. And the way you do it is with a structured approach of, "Okay, I'm gonna assume this persona for the next 20 minutes and be outgoing, and walk up to strangers and talk to them." And I gave them specifically what to say when they meet a stranger or see someone new.


0:25:01 S1: Okay, time for a quick review. Let's go back to the previous podcast, "The Practical Art of Networking", where John outlined his five pillars.

0:25:08 S1: So, we have a graphic here.

0:25:10 S3: Of course! 

0:25:10 S1: One, two, three, four, five parts. So that'll be interesting. Grip and grin, ask a question. I feel like we're doing Jeopardy here.

0:25:17 S3: Yes, we are. [chuckle] Categories are...

0:25:20 S1: Grip and grin, ask a question, be specific, weak ink, and LinkedIn, which is not weak ink, interesting.

0:25:28 S3: Yeah, these are the five pillars of networking.

0:25:29 S1: And you take them in order, that way? 

0:25:31 S3: It takes every atom, one by one. First one, grip and grin. What do you mean by 'grip and grin'? Well, there are many opportunities to network that are presented to everyone every day. But some are good, some are bad. If there's a break between speakers and people go get coffee and it's called a networking break, well, that's your opportunity to meet people. So that's where you can grip and grin. If you go to the Washington Network Group, you'll find out that they're all about networking. If you go to a Chamber of Commerce, Northern Virginia Technology Council, they all have networking opportunities. So you have to identify what a good opportunity is. I think there's certainly not easily identified ones, and some that you have to personally decide. Now, I'm very conservative about that, so when I'm in a business environment, I do business networking. When I'm outside, I normally don't.


0:26:18 S1: Well the next thing you're afraid of is the self-conscious. "Well, what if I walk up to them and they don't like, or I got a stain on my shirt, I'm too self-conscious just to walk up to someone." And that's the second one, is that you have to just learn to be other-conscious.

0:26:38 S1: And of course, when we spoke to him last time, John offered a method of searching the room for a conversational target.

0:26:44 S3: Well, what I do when I work a room, I look around, and I look at what they call the 'edge cases'. An edge case is a person who's standing all alone, or standing in a corner. For example, at this event, there are a bunch of software developers in t-shirts and jeans. And there's one guy standing in a corner alone with a three-piece suit on. And I said, "Hmm." So I walked up to him and said, "Hi, I'm with the welcome wagon, how're you doing? Hey, boy, you don't look like a software developer, do you?" And I found he was a lawyer, he was an IP lawyer. Oh, now I get it. So he represents the company that was there for the intellectual property. And so it was great. So what I try to do is look at a networking situation, find someone who's not included, and try to include 'em.

0:27:20 S1: The idea of the grip and grin is, is you're meeting that you don't know, so it's an uncovering process.

0:27:24 S3: And I have no idea how it's going to benefit. But my job is, I meet someone, I walk up to someone like you, and say, "Kendall, how can I help you? Kendall, what's a good referral for you?" Which is the next point, is number two: Ask a question. So you see Kendall sitting out there, he's got a three-piece suit on, doesn't know anybody in the room, walk up to him, "Hi, my name is John with the welcome wagon, how're you doing? What company you work for? Oh, ABC company, oh, that's interesting. What do you do?" So you ask a question and try to include them into the room. Now, what I normally do is I have a very specific list of questions to ask, and they're normally very, very specific, which is point number three: In order to be terrific, you gotta be specific.

0:28:00 S1: What kind of specificity are you after here? 

0:28:00 S3: Well the question I always use is, "Tell me, Kendall, what's a good referral for you?" So, if you ask me that question, "Well Kendall, a good referral for me would be a $10 million company that has a sales force implementation project that's stuck, that's in hot water. We can help you out."

0:28:14 S1: That's a really good question, because it drives right to what a person wants, it gets to their need, but it's not visioning. It's a very specific thing, give me a pragmatic response.

0:28:24 S3: Right, it's not, "What's your favorite color? Do you like raisins?" Then, this is when the law of reciprocity kicks in. Then they'll turn to you and say, "Well, jeez, John, how can I help you? What's a good referral for you?" And what I'm teaching the people at BDO is, a good referral for me is a CFO of a $20 million company that's got a compliance project in trouble. That's a good referral for BDO, isn't it? So, grip and grin, and then ask a question, but the question should be specific.

0:28:50 S1: What other kind of specificity do you drive for? 

0:28:52 S3: What size of company, what's the title of a person you're looking for, is it a CFO, is that what's important to you? Is it a CEO? Who in the C suite would be important to you? 


0:29:02 S1: One of the things that I realized, as I had to try and learn to do this, was to recognize that actually everybody in the room is in the same boat.

0:29:09 S3: Yeah, that's why that silly little, "I'm the welcome wagon," it just cuts across everything. So if you just walk up to someone and, "I'm with the welcome wagon, I haven't met you before, how are you?" Then go into your standard four or five 'you' statements, and it's all about, "How are you? Did you have a hard time parking here? Well, is there someone you would like to meet here? Are there topics that you would like to hear at the next event? Well, tell me, what are the challenges that you have in project management?" And then to use that Diane Rehm question is, "Tell me more."

0:29:40 S1: What fear are we defeating with this? We've moved past shy and self...

0:29:43 S3: Fear is what do you say? What do you say to a stranger? Well, if you're in a room with software developers, and you're afraid of someone in that room, well, then you just have to overcome it, because there's no one in that one to be afraid of.


0:30:00 S1: So what's our fourth one you've lined up for us? 

0:30:01 S3: Yeah. Well, the fourth, I think is the manipulate. This is more emotional reaction. People have emotional reactions to events.

0:30:10 S1: Yeah, I had the opposite fear when I was kind of beginning this, which is, "Wow, this is such a set-up situation. Everyone knows why I'm talking to them, particularly at a BD event, right? Which is they're all thinking I'm manipulating them. I'm really just trying to understand and learn things."

0:30:24 S3: Yeah. And that's why if you're at an event like that, "Kendall, I'd like you to meet John Gilroy." "Hi, I'm John Gilroy. My company does software development for salesforce. Got any leads for me?" "Well, [laughter], I'm gonna get a club soda, buddy, I'm gonna back-off of that one... "

0:30:36 S1: Ah, the club soda exit.

0:30:37 S3: You don't wanna do that at all.

0:30:38 S1: Tell us about that again, the club soda exit.

0:30:39 S3: Yeah. Well, it's the club soda exit. For example, let's say, "John, I'd like you to meet Kendall." "Hey, Kendall, how are you?" Then Kendall, blah, blah, blah, blah, I have a BMW, blah, blah, blah, you know, the mileage. And they just don't shut up. Now we don't talk about an appropriate topic. Then you have to have an out, you gotta to slide out. And my slide out is, "Hey, excuse me, I'm gonna grab a club soda."


0:31:08 S3: Top 10 things what not to do, okay. I'll give you the top two.

0:31:10 S1: Okay, let's go with two.

0:31:11 S3: Top two. Number one, it's called the card return. If you have a business card and you walk up to someone, put it right in their face, well, it's not what you do in a social situation. What you do is, "Well, that's interesting, Kendall, may I have your business card?" You never force your business card to anyone. If he doesn't have a business card, or he doesn't wanna give it to you, he doesn't have to give it to you. What I've done is because I'm so aggressive, I reach out and give someone my business card. And what they'll do is they'll read it and hand it back [laughter]

0:31:36 S1: Ouch.

0:31:38 S3: It's called the card return.

0:31:39 S1: Yeah.

0:31:40 S3: So you don't wanna do that card... What you want to do is, "That's interesting, Kendall, may I have your business card?" "Well, certainly." Law of reciprocity, "Well, may I have your business card?" "Sure." You exchange business cards. The biggest problem I've seen is something called the Washington handshake. This is you're in an event. And you walk up to someone like Kendall. And you go, "Hey, Kendall, I'm with the welcome wagon. How are you doing?" Reaching out to shake your hand and over your shoulder I see Bill Clinton. And I push you aside and I walk over to Bill Clinton, because I wanna meet him rather than you.

0:32:07 S1: Oh, oh, oh. That it's like a trade-in. It's trading up [laughter]

0:32:09 S3: It's the Washington handshake. Washington hand... It's a terrible thing to do...

0:32:13 S1: So everyone's just power climbing [laughter]

0:32:14 S4: Well, I've seen it and you've seen it and guess what? It's really offensive. I would never do that.


0:32:30 S1: I've seen these all line up pretty much in the sense that like the willingness to step up and grip and grin, ask questions and specific questions. Those are some of your pillars that defeat these. So I'm trying to just kind of keep those in alignment for a second. What's your fifth fear that you recognize? 

0:32:46 S3: It's just like... It's I have nothing to say. "Well, Kendall, why didn't you go to the FP event?" "Well, I didn't go to the event because I have nothing to say." Well, use that as your strength. What do you mean? Well, have the other person talk. All you have to do is ask the leading questions, let the other person speak. "Oh, really, Joe, tell me more about health" "Oh, tell me more about electronic medical records."

0:33:09 S1: So this is really, really important. Something that I actually took as a note in your last presentation to our Chapter, I felt was really, really important, was you said, "Why do we network?" And it's about building relationships so that you do know other people. It's an opportunity also to find what I flagged from what you were saying as mentor, help others get along with it. And then ultimately, and I thought this was really interesting, not to sell things, not to find things, but simply to learn.


0:33:38 S1: Take me to your sixth fear.

0:33:41 S3: Oh, the sixth fear, and the final one, is I get rejected. I don't wanna walk up to Kendall and he may say, "Buzz off." Well, you know you're gonna get rejected if you use the wrong approach. If you walk up to someone and you're sincere, and go, "Hi, Kendall, looks like you're new here. I'm with the welcome wagon, how are you?" How can that possibly get rejected? Humans don't reject people for that.

0:34:11 S1: So coming out of a physical meeting, you're moving into a LinkedIn environment...

0:34:15 S3: Oh, definitely.

0:34:16 S3: Weak ink is stronger than a strong mind [chuckle] So what I'm saying is that if you're in a networking situation and someone says to you, "Yes, Kendall, Joe Smith over at Xerox needs a software developments cup." What you wanna do is write that down so you remember it. Because if you try to remember it, you're gonna forget it. Which brings us to the final point, which is the fifth pillar, is what you wanna do is go to a networking event, come back with five or six cards, and then before you go to sleep that night Link In to everyone you meet. And you just reach out with a specific... "Hey, Kendall, good meeting you at the Chamber of Commerce event. I'd like to connect to you on LinkedIn." I think if you develop a strong network of contacts, if you're in a situation where you have to change jobs or start your own company, that's the best thing that you can do is have a strong federation of weak links.

0:35:07 S3: I have like a thousand people on LinkedIn. I'm not gonna go to the beach for a week with every one of those people, but I like to keep in contact with everyone I know. So a project manager should understand that they control their destiny. And one way to control it is with a strong social media profile, LinkedIn specifically. Seed you sow is the grass you mow. Make sure you have a good LinkedIn network where you can keep in touch with people just to find out. For example, three months from now I could be at an event and I go, "Jeez, they're looking for an IP lawyer." "Oh, really, let me see... Oh, I have his name right here, I met him three months ago." So I can go to my card catalogue or I can go to LinkedIn and find him, I'll probably go to LinkedIn.

0:35:41 S1: Now, you were saying LinkedIn. Why are you picking LinkedIn over others? 

0:35:43 S3: Well, I've been involved in many different social networking sites and from a business perspective, LinkedIn seems to be the champ. There are over 300 million people on LinkedIn. It's a very active community, and it puts this relationship in a very specific manner. No one cares if I like bagels. No one cares if I lost my shoe yesterday. They care about specific business problems. So what I post on LinkedIn is information that's of benefit to all the people who contact me.


0:36:17 S1: And do you notice anything that's keeping people from being effective in documenting their weak ink or getting on LinkedIn? 

0:36:23 S3: I've done it a million times. For example, I'll be at an event, and I'll meet Kendall. And Kendall will say, "Well, John, how can I help you?" And I'll say, "Well, my daughter is in Seattle, Washington, and she needs a job." And you say, "Well, my brother is hiring people in Seattle." And then, I forget to write it down, and I meet 10 other people. I'm driving home, I'm going, "Oh, God, Kendall, Kendall, Kendall, what'd he tell me? What he'd tell me?" And I forget about it.

0:36:48 S1: Is it competence, or fear? 

0:36:49 S3: And that's how because I didn't write it down, because a lot of these social situations are highly emotional, and things change and pivot, and people get distracted. And if you have the discipline to write it down, it's gonna have long-term benefits for you.

0:37:08 S1: Why do we need, "This is a recommendation," or obvious...

0:37:10 S3: No, 'cause they think LinkedIn is just for their resume, to find jobs. It's not.

0:37:15 S1: So why are they underestimating...

0:37:15 S3: It's not, "Oh, yeah, I'm in LinkedIn, 'cause I'm looking for a job. I'm not looking for a job, I'm not in LinkedIn." No, no, no. LinkedIn is a professional networking area. It's safe. It's professional. You don't have to worry about people being goofy. It's a nice, neutral corner.


0:37:43 S1: Milestone three: Fix the roof before it rains.

0:37:48 S1: All the signs were pointing to LinkedIn, which led me to Kari Mirabal. According to her LinkedIn profile, she is the Connection Coach, a keynote speaker, and she can help lead you to people, opportunity, and profit through the power of connection.

0:38:01 Speaker 5: All of this information is out there. All of this data is out there for you. But if you still think that LinkedIn is just about slapping a profile out there, and that's all it can do, then it's not serving you.

0:38:12 S1: I first met Kari when she spoke about LinkedIn leadership at a PMI Washington, DC dinner meeting. I was impressed with her mastery of the art of LinkedIn. I realized that most of us barely scratch the surface when it comes to harnessing the power of this amazing tool. And I wanted to see its deeper relationship, with the reality of connections.

0:38:31 S5: I have been very fortunate in my entire career to have opportunities where I go to work and love what I do. And I feel like coaching other people to be able to do that, from my own experience working 15 years in the IT recruiting industry has really helped me create strategies where I can help other people do exactly what I did.

0:38:53 S1: Give me the categories of your strategies that help you get there.

0:38:56 S5: For networking, it would be the plan, connect, and grow. So planning would be, who do you wanna talk to, and why? Connecting would be, picking the right vehicle for that communication. Maybe it's LinkedIn, maybe it's Twitter. Maybe it's a traditional event where you know someone's gonna be that you'd like to connect with. And then the third step is the grow, which would be not being a fair-weathered friend. Nobody wants that. So you not only have to build that network, but if you want it to work for you, you have to continue to put energy into it.

0:39:27 S1: So talk to me about some other strategy. So you have a fear strategy? Is that one of them? 

0:39:31 S5: Sure, absolutely. Well, I think it's very important to first acknowledge what you're feeling. "I'm scared. I can't believe I'm getting ready to do this. Am I crazy? What is going on here?" Then the second step for me is to really look at the difference between fact and fiction. So, is this really a situation where I need to be concerned? Is this a do or die situation? Probably not. So, working through the process of, "Okay, this is just me, feeling a little nervous about the unknown, or outside my comfort zone." And then the third step is really just taking some type of action. I coach my clients, and I talk about this in my forthcoming book about how to build connections on LinkedIn by just doing five minutes of some type of activity on LinkedIn, minimum, each day.

0:40:19 S5: So, for me, it might be, "Okay, I'm fearful to talk to this C-level executive for a company that I really wanna get in front of. Okay, today, I'm going to send him a letter on LinkedIn, and see if I can engage him. Or maybe I'll write a blog that might grab his attention, and forward it to him, for him or her to see." So taking one little step towards an action that will help me to push through that fear. So those are the three steps.

0:40:46 S1: And connections with your career.

0:40:48 S5: I always say that the process for getting a successful career change hasn't changed, in all the years, but the tools have. Now, we're dealing with social media, we have smart phones, and we're doing a lot of things on media. But, really, it's always been about who you know, and in some cases, what they would be willing to do or help you with. So, for me, the strategy is knowing yourself. Because I have to know what skills and special gifts I have, and how I can bring value into the workplace. And knowing those things about me means going to an interview, and being prepared to give that information to someone, so that they understand. But you have to know your transferable skills, you also have to know how to communicate them. So in my program, I work with clients on creating a "Tell me about yourself" statement, or interview skills that incorporate those particular values and skill sets. So there's a 90-day program and a lot of information and resources to help people with that process.

0:41:48 S1: So this is about identifying the targets, for example? 

0:41:51 S5: Absolutely. You have to know what kind of industries you wanna work with, what kind of companies. Culture is very, very important to a lot of people, and also, leadership. What kind of leaders inspire you? What kind of leadership people do you wanna report to and work with? 


0:42:12 S1: So you've gotten into the land of LinkedIn and I wanna push into there, part of being good at LinkedIn. You ended up with some 10 tips.

0:42:19 S5: Yep.

0:42:20 S1: Your 10 steps are not how to use LinkedIn as much as how to get ready to use LinkedIn.

0:42:25 S5: Sure. The 10 steps that we talked about have to do with what I call 'build it so they will come'. The first thing on LinkedIn is you absolutely have to have an engaging profile. And I have 10 absolutes that I believe will help anyone have success on their profile, meaning it's an opportunity to create gravity. You're a thought leader, you want all your employees to know a little bit more about what's important to you, your culture, your history, your experience, maybe your education, the books that you enjoy reading, the things that you hold value in your company. So whenever you take on a new project or do something new or add a skill, or you've completed a training, go to LinkedIn and update your profile. That is your online asset. So it needs to be this living, breathing, support tool for you.


0:43:24 S1: Listen carefully. Here are the 10 steps that Kari outlined for us at the PMI dinner.

0:43:30 S5: The first thing that I recommend that everyone has on a LinkedIn profile is a professional photo. Number two: The background photo. It's just another opportunity to create interest on your profile. Number three: An engaging headline. Number four: The customized contact information. Make sure that you are taking full advantage of the profile where you can add some bells and whistles. LinkedIn allows you to have three websites that you can point to.

0:44:03 S5: Remember that LinkedIn is kind of a bridge back to your company's website, so always make sure that you have the stuff updated. An inviting summary. The summary is kind of a who you are, what you do, and why people should care. And I invite you to have a little bit of fun with it. Now be professional, we're not Facebook. But we wanna have a little bit of fun and show a little bit of our personal side. Number six: Professional recommendations. Now, I recommend that you have three at least, for each year. Number seven: Customized URL. Now this is really neat. By default, LinkedIn will give you a URL that's like this long with numbers and dollar signs or whatever. What's really nice here is that you can go into your settings, and you can actually just say,

0:45:00 S5: Number eight: Having a relaxed tone overall. A lot of people on LinkedIn have this robotic tone, and I don't recommend that. It almost looks like your administrative assistant wrote it for you instead of you. And it's a turnoff. Number nine: Complete your profile. A lot of people slap a profile out there and then they leave it. I had a guy last week tell me, "Well, Kari, I don't need your help because somebody looked at my LinkedIn profile two years ago and it was just fine." And I laugh, because the technology changes so much, and LinkedIn is always updating things, so you're really missing out if it's been two years.

0:45:38 S5: But the completed profile would showcase your experience, what you did, how you did it, and maybe some of your achievements. Keywords, so people can find you. So the more keywords you have in your profile, meaning, don't just say project manager at three-letter digit agency. But put in as much as you can get away with, so when people go searching for you, you show up higher on their search.

0:46:05 S5: Number 10: Growing your connections. This is a daily activity. Plan, connect, and grow. You just never know when you're going to need that network. I believe it was JFK that said, "The time to fix the roof is not when it's raining." So we have to build it before we really need it. Once the profile is complete and it looks great, then it's step two, which is going out and engaging with the LinkedIn online global community. So, it's not about just broadcasting. It's called social media, the idea is to be social. So we want to not just, "Buy my stuff, buy my stuff." We want it to be an opportunity to ask questions. "This is how I feel. How do you feel?" "I saw this article, I wanna share it with other project managers, or other thought leaders, or other career seekers."

0:47:09 S5: It's an opportunity for giving and sharing and knowledge transfer, which can in itself be a gift. I'm having a bad day. I pull up on LinkedIn, I see someone's blog about happiness or how to find purpose. And it's just what I needed in that moment. So there are many, many other resources within LinkedIn than just having a profile, and that's one of the messages I wanna send is, people who think just having a profile is it, it's just the tip of the iceberg. There are platforms for publication, for writing blogs. You can share articles, you can look for employees, you can recruit other like-minded individuals to start a group. It's an amazing vehicle to be able to do that.

0:47:54 S1: What I was realizing is that these nine of your 10 steps are really about again, it seems to be like getting he right profile. All the things that are elements of that. So it's not even the full use of LinkedIn. It's more about how you get set up so that you'll be on a platform to use the platform, right? So you're standing on the right one. So number nine is complete your profile, but number 10 is now grow your connections. What's the beginning of that interaction that you wanna see now? 


0:48:21 S1: It sounds like there's a larger use now. Once I've gone through your 10 steps, I'm all ready, I've bought your paradigm, I'm with you on your system here. It's almost a "then what", and to "what value"? 

0:48:31 S5: Again, you have to begin with the end in mind, because people get on LinkedIn and they can spend six, seven, eight hours just looking people up. And so, you have to have a clear intention on how you're gonna spend that 15 minutes a day on LinkedIn. So I think one thing that's important is there are some great materials out there to help people get comfortable with navigation of the tool. Where do I go to do what? So if I'm a thought leader within a company, my intention is to connect more powerfully with, let's say, my sales team. One of the things I can use LinkedIn for is, I can use the connections app and it will actually tell me and remind me of anniversaries within the company, something as personal as a birthday.

0:49:14 S1: You talked about this, I remember you describing it to me around... Almost, it's deepening the relationships within the company. A lot of people think of LinkedIn as the way I reach out. And there's an enrichment process that seems to be happening within group.

0:49:28 S5: Within, yes absolutely. I believe that every leader should have an opportunity to connect with the employees. Imagine if you have a new employee to your company, and as their manager, you take five minutes to go and really look at who do they know, where have they been, what kind of... On LinkedIn, it shows you the activity. So you can say, "Wow, this person wrote a blog two weeks ago about the importance of this." On their first day at the new job, you have an opportunity to say, "I really liked that quote you posted on LinkedIn." Or, "I really liked that blog you posted about the power of communication," or whatever.


0:50:02 S5: It creates an engagement opportunity between a leader and a new employee.

0:50:08 S1: Studying a well-conceived profile, an executive or project manager can benefit by learning about the skills and the interests the team member is bringing to the table. Beyond being able to bestow the personal touch, actual value can be extracted.


0:50:26 S1: The ability to find or monitor or observe connections gives you data. Talk to me about that.

0:50:32 S5: I'm a project manager, let's say, and I'm getting ready to do an SAP implementation. I want to save my team some time and some resources. So one of the things I can do on LinkedIn specifically, is I can go research and I can find like people. So let's say that I'm in the oil and gas industry. One of the things that I can do is I can search other project managers, for example, in the oil and gas industry, who may have implemented an SAP project recently. One of the things I will do is reach out to them and say, "Would you be willing to share some knowledge with me? We're in the process of selecting a software." Or a widget, or whatever you need for that project. "I'd like to get your input on that." So you go out and you find five people who have implemented SAP and you ask them, "What was the best thing? What are some things that you wish you would have known before you started your project?" That's networking.

0:51:28 S5: People pull back and they feel guarded, and sometimes they don't ask for that help, where I encourage them to do that. Because if I do that, and I spend 10 minutes on the phone with each one of these people, it's gonna actually... I'm going a little bit slow, but it's going to help me move faster when it really counts when I get into that project. So I can learn about companies, I can learn about sponsors, I can learn about products, and research activity that other people... And I can look at recommendations, and I can look at critiques. And I can really research, so that when it comes time for me to start my project scope, I am empowered with knowledge to make quick, efficient and effective decisions so my project runs smoother. And imagine, in a perfect world, if all the project managers would see this tool as an opportunity to engage and share and help each other, how much resources and time we would save.


0:52:22 S1: Your background includes hiring.

0:52:24 S5: I do recruiting.

0:52:25 S1: You do recruiting. In that context you would've come across a lot of project managers, I would imagine.

0:52:30 S5: One thing that I see that's common with them is they love their scopes, understandably so, and they love the systematic. So networking is something that doesn't necessarily happen in a sequential order. You may set out one day to go meet people over here, but LinkedIn takes you a different direction. Next thing you know, you're making connections over here, which you never even anticipated, that never even hit your scope. So I tell people, "I invite you to reinvent your relationship with networking. Have some fun. Explore. Let go a little bit, and see where the journey takes you." We all know that being flexible is a gift that every project manager, I believe, has to have. So take those principles, the good and the bad, and apply those to your networking. Be flexible. You know how they say you can lead the horse to the water, but you can't make them drink? 

0:53:24 S1: Yep.

0:53:25 S5: My job is to make the horses thirsty. That's it. So I want to pique curiosity and inspire action.


0:53:37 S1: You talked about using LinkedIn as a form of...

0:53:40 S5: Research.

0:53:40 S1: Research tool. I've heard you discuss it. It was more about tracking what other people were doing as a way of getting information.

0:53:46 S5: Watching trends and...

0:53:48 S1: So what's that mean, watching trends? 

0:53:49 S5: Well, on LinkedIn they have the pulse. They have the home screen where you see everyone's updates. And one of the ways that I like to connect is when I see someone on the home screen say, "25 people lost their jobs today in this oil and gas company", then it's an opportunity for someone in the recruiting or the HR industry and a competitor to say, "Wow, let me reach out," and I've done this, "Let me reach out to the HR manager of the company that let all those people go, and let's tell them we've got jobs and let's help those people out." If you did not see that information scrolling, you wouldn't have known to have that opportunity. So, I'm an opportunist at heart, so I'm always looking for ways to help other people and encouraging other people to do the same.

0:54:32 S5: One of the things that I talk about is when you're on LinkedIn and you see an opportunity come through, we're looking for a technical project manager in Chicago. You can go, "Uh, I already have a job," and move on. Or you can say, "You know what? Maybe if I share this on my feed with my connections, I may be able to help that project manager sitting at home right now that's rolling off contract in three weeks and doesn't know where they're gonna go next." So, if you pause before you pass, you have an opportunity to be a contribution to help other people. And by doing that over and over and over again, and seeing those opportunities for what they are, you have a chance to impact other people. And that's connection. And it's also interesting from a company that says, "We need to hire project managers, how come we're not getting more bites?" But this company over here...

0:55:20 S1: Is getting bites.

0:55:21 S5: What is different? So, you can almost do a reverse engineering, where you can look and say, "Oh, wow, they're paying $130,000 for their PM," because on LinkedIn it will release, in some cases, salary information. "We're only paying $75,000. This could be problematic." Or, how are they wording their job description to engage people to want to apply? Versus... The days of the generic black and white job description, it doesn't engage people. People wanna be, especially on LinkedIn, it's not a job board. It's a networking tool. So it's all about passive candidates. So, how are you going to get someone to leave this job to come work for you? What are you offering? So, someone can really look at the competitor's job descriptions and their patterns to look at their own standards and say, "Wow, we need to up our game," or, "We need to figure this out."

0:56:12 S5: So, there's just so many different ways, I just wanna encourage people to take a deeper dive into the data that's out there for free, and use it to your best benefit. LinkedIn has the You-niversity now, where you can literally go in and see all of the alumni from your college class, where they work, and it'll show you data for a percentage of graduates from this year to this year, or in IT, or in manufacturing or in healthcare. And then it lists them all. So, if I'm a millennial and I'm out there looking for a new opportunity and I just graduated from St. Louis University, I can literally go look at all of the alum and it's all right there for you. So, all of this information is out there, all of this data is out there for you. But if you still think that LinkedIn is just about slapping a profile out there and that's all it can do, then it's not serving you. And you're hurting yourself by not keeping up to date with all this information.


0:57:23 S1: Give before you get, you mow what you sow, pause before you pass. These are important as we review some of the elements of connections. Approachability versus credibility. If you want to be remembered, you've got to make nine contacts in 18 months. And create a strategy to plan, connect and grow. In short, if you want it to work, you've got to put the work in network. Special thanks to today's guest Sheila Savar, John Gilroy and Kari Mirabal. To see Kari's full video presentation and to listen to John Gilroy speak at the PMI WDC dinner meeting, Chapter members can go to the events page on the Chapter website at There you will find over 100 more video and audio files of presentations on leadership and project management, and they're all good for PDUs.

0:58:19 S1: Kari Mirabal's book, "The Power of Connection: How Networking Smart Leads to People, Opportunity and Profit", will hit the shelves in late 2016. "The Power of Networking: A how-to Networking Guide for your Career and Business Success", released by Sheila Savar in 2008 is currently available on And you can listen to John Gilroy's The Computer Guys on WAMU.


0:58:46 S1: Thanks also to PMIWDC's Uma Hiremagalur, Vice President of programs, and Catherine Sweeney, past chair, for connecting me with today's guests.

0:58:58 S1: Now listeners, to practice what they preach, I'll just say it's been a pleasure hosting you on this podcast and I look forward to hosting you again on later editions. I hope you didn't go and get club soda in the meantime.

0:59:12 S4: Our theme music was composed by Molly Flannery, used with permission. Additional original music by Rich Greenblatt. Post-production performed at Empowered Strategies, and technical and web support provided by Potomac Management Resources.

0:59:28 S1: PMPs who've listened through this complete podcast may submit a PDU claim, one PDU, in the New Talent Triangle, Strategic and Business Management with the Project Management Institute's CCR system. Choose the REP Chapter sponsored education category, search for C046, the Washington DC Chapter, and submit code PMP0V0022 entitled 'Connections'. I'm your host Kendall Lott, and until next time, keep it in scope and get it done.


1:00:01 S1: This podcast is a Final Milestone production, distributed by PMIWDC.

1:00:07 S?: Final Milestone. 

About the 'Project Management Point of View' Podcast Series

© PMIWDC and Kendall Lott

This podcast series is a collection of brief and informative conversations between MPS President, Kendall Lott, and a wide variety of practitioners and executives. His guests discuss their unique perspectives on project management, its uses, its challenges, its changes, and its future.